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Im of for now but am i right to say that hexagon doesnt have planar scale on the gizmo? :)

I could live with that. I find direct acces to planar move very important and that seems to be on there.

Rotation controls seem very very small.

Screen move seems to be missing which is important.

Maybe ill be back later tonight.

JW

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Im of for now but am i right to say that hexagon doesnt have planar scale on the gizmo? :)

I could live with that. I find direct acces to planar move very important and that seems to be on there.

Rotation controls seem very very small.

Screen move seems to be missing which is important.

Maybe ill be back later tonight.

JW

it does have planar scale look closely

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@philnolan3d

A quick screencast on the hard surface modeling with cloth.

@3dioot

Yes it would be a welcome addition if 3d-coat had a masking feature in voxels but To me this method has more control than masking and extruding. I will say I am coming from a polygonal modeling background so this method seems natural to me.

@Andrew

There is one element of this video at then end where I use the control key to cut into the model. I would like to see this added to the E panel. As of right now holding the control key will cut right through the model, which is great if thats what you want but it would be very helpful if I could set a depth to which it cuts.

here is the screencast.

http://www.screencast.com/users/Deadman21/...80-2e1fc4a198af

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Deadman: Thank you. Now I see what you mean. It's good for adding hard edged surface details, it's still tough to really do hard surface modeling, like modeling a car would be a big challenge I think.

bisenberger: It is XYZ = RGB, it's just that, like LightWave, some other programs, and math in general, Y is up.

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bisenberger: It is XYZ = RGB, just that like LightWave, some other programs, and math in general, Y is up.

Well in MAX it's that way...but as most of us know that's the odd ball app- not the norm, and most of the other applications with interested users agree that it's XYZ, just like we learned in trig and calc etc....

So for the love of all that is holy and voxel PLEASE stick to some form of XYZ!

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Andrew, that would be great to have to possibility to add some "predefined" edge for quadrangulation.

Current mesh are quite good, but you can't have clean uvs, so if we could add one or two straight line to be able to do a good cut, that would help.

Right now it is possible to have one with symmetry on, but it works only on symmetrical object.

Quadrangluation is really good for still image, but for Uv layout the resulting mesh is quite messy.

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Andrew, that would be great to have to possibility to add some "predefined" edge for quadrangulation.

Current mesh are quite good, but you can't have clean uvs, so if we could add one or two straight line to be able to do a good cut, that would help.

Right now it is possible to have one with symmetry on, but it works only on symmetrical object.

Quadrangluation is really good for still image, but for Uv layout the resulting mesh is quite messy.

Yes, I want to do it. But, my first goal now is to reach beta state when all main features are done. So my current plan is

1) Fix most annoying bugs (today)

2) Make profiling version for NVidia to make speed testing in hundreds of PC-s (today, 50% tomorrow)

3) Make direct painting because really peoples can't wait more for this very desired feature - it will take 5-10 days.

4) Make dockable and tabbed interface (3-5 days) - it is important especially for VS because interface there has become really heavy

5) It will be BETA

Then I will touch and refine most of tools.

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4) Make dockable and tabbed interface (3-5 days) - it is important especially for VS because interface there has become really heavy

Good idea, I was thinking VS is more like a mode than a tool like most of the other icons on the left side.

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Hi Andrew,

I haven't been following the updates to version 3 as much as I would like but is the new interface that was talked about in the forums likely to make it into the release of version 3?

Sorry if this as been discussed but I couldn't see it.

Thanks,

Andrew.

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Hi Andrew,

I haven't been following the updates to version 3 as much as I would like but is the new interface that was talked about in the forums likely to make it into the release of version 3?

Sorry if this as been discussed but I couldn't see it.

Thanks,

Andrew.

Interface was not changed essentially, but it is important point to be done in V3. It is in to-do list.

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...

3) Make direct painting because really peoples can't wait more for this very desired feature - it will take 5-10 days.

...

Yes, can't await that!!! And I'am very interested how you will improve the "brush feeling".

Best wishes

Chris

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One last response to manipulator than I'm done with the subject for now.(I hope) ;)

Quote:Rotation controls seem very very small.(End)There is an invisible buffer margin built in so you don't have to be right on line to activate it.

Screen move seems to be missing which is important.(End)This could be easily implemented, it's the center circle, right?

While we're touching on the subject of interfaces briefly, please consider the Hexagon interface as well.I find this to be a well thought out and organized interface.

It offers tabbed options, utilizes all four edges of screen ,and to me it's just plain pretty. :)

Of course be creative and make it your own. :brush:

Just some thoughts.

post-913-1235399657_thumb.jpg

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Deadman: Thank you. Now I see what you mean. It's good for adding hard edged surface details, it's still tough to really do hard surface modeling, like modeling a car would be a big challenge I think.

bisenberger: It is XYZ = RGB, it's just that, like LightWave, some other programs, and math in general, Y is up.

philnolan3d: In Cartesian coordinates X,Y form the two dimensional plane, z forms the third dimension. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system

mocaw: The RGB only refers to the color of the axis. X=red, Y=green, Z=blue.

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Andrew, that would be great to have to possibility to add some "predefined" edge for quadrangulation.

Great idea! Not to steal you idea,that is why i want to say!

If Andrew will add "predefined edge" and " drivable area quadranglulation",the retopo work flow will be deadly improved!

Maybe stupid,My idea is use the curve tool subdivide whole modle to some areas,then " area quadranglute" it (maybe the algorithm is more easy

and the topology more fit for animation?),

The weakness of VS is it hard to retopo,so it is important to make a more easy retopo work flow,If my idea come be true :lol: , :o;):blink:;)

or :rolleyes: ?

post-641-1235405246_thumb.jpg

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tree321> I really love Hexagon interface. It has good manipulator, nice self-explaining icons for nearly everything and very pleasant colors. It doesn't like a serious pseudo-nuclear-ultra-mathematic-geek-approved-software and it doesn't look like a cheap children toy neither.

In my opinion, it would be great, if 3D-coad had similar interface to Hexagon.

I really liked the interface of 3DC 2, but since some day retopo and voxel tools remind me scientific calculator, not an artists tool :)

Another quastion is when is the right time to start working on interface. Theoretically it can wait just until the release of final version, practically it is better to test UI for the longest possible time to collect as many user opinions and suggestions as possible.

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Another quastion is when is the right time to start working on interface. Theoretically it can wait just until the release of final version, practically it is better to test UI for the longest possible time to collect as many user opinions and suggestions as possible.

Yes, im happy Andrew will be creating a first version of it soon exactly for the argument you give. If a new interface is introduced a week before release there will be tears; it would never work.

GrtZ

JW

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tree321> In my opinion, it would be great, if 3D-coad had similar interface to Hexagon.

Imo logical UI restructuring at this point is far more important than its actual look.

I'm sure Andrew can cook up skinning options as soon as the framework is complete.

Maybe we shouldn't limit the discussion on 3D-manipulators?

The way how layers are getting implemented in V3 is a very interesting question alone...

Will it stay the way we have it currently? That we have separate "Rooms" to paint, to create UV-layouts, to Retopo or to Voxel-Sculpt.

Or should that better change?

A word on the Hexagon UI:

I remember only very limited controls through context menus (therefor the program required

a lot of mouse traveling) when I last tested it. NoGo for me.

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Imo logical UI restructuring at this point is far more important than its actual look.

I'm sure Andrew can cook up skinning options as soon as the framework is complete.

Maybe we shouldn't limit the discussion on 3D-manipulators?

The way how layers are getting implemented in V3 is a very interesting question alone...

Will it stay the way we have it currently? That we have separate "Rooms" to paint, to create UV-layouts, to Retopo or to Voxel-Sculpt.

Or should that better change?

Very valid points. I dont think most people differentiate between look and ui restructering and often mean them both when they talk about looks.

From what i understood 3dcoat will be split into modules. In other words; a sculpting module, a retopo module and a painting module. And that imo is perfect for a multitude of reasons. You implied that we have "seperate rooms" atm. To me it doesnt feel like that at all; currently were doing everything in the same crowded environment (the same room). I personally cant wait for the "splitup". Three modules with their own specific tools and just as important if not more important; the ability to reorganize and arrange each module seperately to your liking with its own shortcuts, buttons and menu's.

GrtZ

JW

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I personally cant wait for the "splitup".

Oh oh - here I wholeheartedly differ :).

While this approach may seem familiar for those who work with Carrara or Lightwave

such a separation no more seems common practice in most 3D applications (regardless of the industry).

Even Newtek now creates Lightwave Core...

Where did you read about these plans by the way? I only gathered that Andrew plans to create a more technical

release for those who need precision-tools.

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Oh no! I think you misunderstand. :)

Maybe i shouldnt have used the word "splitup". My bad.

I meant that within 3dcoat itself you get three main modules. Just like XSI has modelling, animation and rendering modules for example. But these just change the toolbars and the like. Almost like changing a workspace. Yes thats more descriptive. You have a sculpting workspace, a topology workspace and a painting workspace.

Not that you get seperate versions. :)

JW

PS

I didnt find it specifcially anywhere.. More like comments i picked up over a longer period that seem to point this direction.

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polyxo>A word on the Hexagon UI:

I remember only very limited controls through context menus (therefor the program required

a lot of mouse traveling) when I last tested it. NoGo for me.

Don't know about that, but if it could be improved upon I'm all for it.

I think we should reopen the discussion on user interface in the interface discussion section.I notice there hasn't been movement in that room for some time now.In my opinion the interface is going to one of most loved or hated by new users and advanced users alike.I don't think the chatter over the blender or Zbrush interface has ever stopped.Never heard a bad word about Hexagons face.That doesn't mean it's going to be perfect for 3D-Coat.What I like most about Hexagon is that it is clean,functional and pleasing to the eyes.Modos' interface isn't bad either, but I prefer Hexagons'.

Anyway I'll make this short since I believe we should devote full attention to this subject in the interface discussion area so as not to flood this room too much with non current development talk.

I would like everyone who uses another software package to discuss what they like and dislike about it so we can narrow down some of the interface must haves and must not ever in a million billion years have. :lol:

I agree lets not wait till the last minute to throw in a whole new interface design.We all need time to test it out and then enough time to argue about it. :lol:

Rick

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Oh no! I think you misunderstand. :)

While this sounds far better to me I believe that such a split in different workspaces while delivering clarity in

terms of currently available tools it can provide additional complexity too:

I think we can agree on currently having a pretty unrefined system of separate rooms, no?

The interface currently only addapts by adding new panels to the UI while keeping many

controls visible which are of no use in that mode.

But it is in so far separate rooms as we can only retopo/uv layout when activating this certain mode, right?

What I mean with additional complexity with split rooms however gets visible with this rough draft already!

Have you ever noticed at how many points inside of 3DCoat you can load geometry into and export from the scene?

It is certainly more than dozen locations spread all over the application! To know the "File"-Menu entry is certainly not enough

to use the full potential of this program!

And workmodes reference each other too:

Just look at the newly added Cloth-command. It allows to jump into the Retopo Mode to pick some patches from there.

I'm curious how things will develop...

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edited for illustration (doesn't really bother me where the screen-space rotate ring

goes, but your suggestion of placing screen-space move is good)

manipulator-edit.jpg

Note: bluish color is just the background showing thru a semi-transparent white.

As for indication on what constrained plane, the 'boxes' could be stretched slightly

along 1 axis to indicate which direction is intended...I don't find too much confusion

with it in Silo once a small amount of usage becomes logical habit. <shrugs>

Also, it's pretty obvious what can be manipulated when 1 axis won't work. ;)

Not sure if this has been said already but, the smaller you make the screen rotation the harder it is to acurately whild a desire angle. That's the reason other programs have it large...

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Yes its a good and valid argument.

I gave it some thought yesterday and Ive come to agree with it actually eventhough i havent voiced it yet.

So hereby; i agree screen rotation should be a big outside circle instead of using the border of screen move.

:)

GrtZ

JW

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Hexagon's interface is one of the best there is. The program's feature set was also very advanced and one of the coolest modeling apps that I know of. Too bad the bugs made it unusable for most people though.

I don't know if it's stealing or not but I wouldn't mind if a lot of the concepts from Hexagon were adopted by 3dCoat. Such as like Andrew says the dockable icons where you can make your own custom tool pallette and stuff like that.

Oh yeah and Andrew I know you are very busy and have other things on your priorities but plz don't forget my lil parallax mapping feature request if you have the time at some point that is. Definately I agree with the priorities you're making just don't forget if you don't mind. Even if you do forget that's okay too =)

Request: http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2211 :)

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manipulator-edit.jpg

The thing that I don't really like about these "pieces of rings" is that it's hard to tell which direction it's pointing at a split second glance. I feel like I have to look at it and think about which direction it will go, even for just a second, before I grab it and start rotating. I should be able to just just grab it and go. it's not a huge deal I guess but it's a workflow thing and I think full rings would make the experience just that much better.

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