URGENT: Nearly impossible to pose complex objects

[Taros]

Hello. Unfortunately I am really frustrated.

I try to pose my current model in 3DC. But it is really hard and not far from impossible to pose the model for further work.

I tried to pose the arm into the desired position, but I gave up after 20 minutes trying. Really bad.

When I try to use the "select with pen" mode, I can never select a whole part. Everytime there is a small area, which is not selected. But I don't have a possibility to check it, before I start to pose. And when I am using undo and then try to add the unselected area to the pose area, it's impossible, because the pose tool clears my current selection completely and starts a new one - really frustrating.

And why I can't use the contour brushes for selecting the pose area? They would be really helpful when selecting complex object areas.

I beg you: Please correct this soon! Without posing it is impossible to work on complex models.

And I really don't want to stop working on my project, because of this problem.

Don't someone have the same problems with posing?

Thank you

Chris

PS: And one bug: When you try to substract selected areas by using the brush in combination with the CTRL-Button, some new areas will be added. You can verify this by selecting a new pose area and then try to substract some parts, by clicking into a empty area of your object.

PPS: Video Capture, that describes the problems. (Hope you understand my english...) -> Video capture with sound (DivX, 36 MBytes)

[3dioot]

Actually i did. The workflow with pose is completely broken. I have said this again and again and again during the alpha and beta phase and i just gave up on it. If i have the time ill look up the posts about it for you so you have some arguments.

3dioot

[Taros]

I am preparing a video and will post it in some minutes.

Really frustrated.

[Taros]

Finished the video with the bug infos:

Video capture with sound (DivX, 36 MBytes)

[Ondrej Svadlena]

Hi Chris,

try this. This way it works for me, just tested it five minutes ago.

Do not use the Lamblight shader, it gives you incorrect information about your selection. Instead use the "Default" shader. You will get coloured information about your selection (rainbow colours). Red means 100% selected. If you get artifacts press shift to smooth. Unselecting with control worked for me...

Hope it helps

Ondrej

[3dioot]

Ive seen the movie. All known points. Maybe Andrew will finally understand now why this is not a good workflow.

Ill see if i can find the relative posts for you now.

One of the biggest problems of pose is the horrible horrible methodology of selecting/masking. It really should be combined with normal masking (which still isnt there for voxel sculpting) into one fluent selection system. Pose should be a system you can use on top of your selection. This would solve eighty % of your problems.

Here is the page where pose development started:

Link

I feel you should just read a few pages from there and... well just read them.

Here is another post in which i mention your exact problem at the end. (but i do it in pretty much every post i made regarding pose)

Link

3dioot

[renderdemon]

Hello. Unfortunately I am really frustrated.

I try to pose my current model in 3DC. But it is really hard and not far from impossible to pose the model for further work.

I tried to pose the arm into the desired position, but I gave up after 20 minutes trying. Really bad.

When I try to use the "select with pen" mode, I can never select a whole part. Everytime there is a small area, which is not selected. But I don't have a possibility to check it, before I start to pose. And when I am using undo and then try to add the unselected area to the pose area, it's impossible, because the pose tool clears my current selection completely and starts a new one - really frustrating.

And why I can't use the contour brushes for selecting the pose area? They would be really helpful when selecting complex object areas.

I beg you: Please correct this soon! Without posing it is impossible to work on complex models.

And I really don't want to stop working on my project, because of this problem.

Don't someone have the same problems with posing?

Thank you

Chris

PS: And one bug: When you try to substract selected areas by using the brush in combination with the CTRL-Button, some new areas will be added. You can verify this by selecting a new pose area and then try to substract some parts, by clicking into a empty area of your object.

PPS: Video Capture, that describes the problems. (Hope you understand my english...) -> Video capture with sound (DivX, 36 MBytes)

This is actually the same problem I have posted on 3.00.08 beta thread.

I hope Andrew will fix it,and makes select with pen not affected by undo(for the selecting area)

[kay_Eva]

maybe if the retopo tools could be used in order to make a selection for the pose tool

[jedwards]

Even using the default shader with the color falloff doesn't give 100% coverage. There are often spots on a voxel mesh that simply cannot be masked regardless - even when trying to smooth over them. I agree with 3dioot in that we need to separate posing from selection. Hopefully this would also allow for performing window and lasso selections, which are often much faster than having to paint everything, and might even guarantee full coverage without spots. This is a major wishlist feature for me, not just for the posing capability but for selection/masking in general, which is a major aspect to detail sculpting as well. Being able to paint complex masks in zbrush and then use the inflate modifier to give even extrusions is something I do almost every day when sculpting details for next gen game assets.

One thing I'd love to be able to do when it comes to posing multiple voxel meshes simultaneously is go into each voxel layer in the tree, make my selections with a paint or window/lasso selection and then, do my posing in whatever layer I want, knowing that all my selections in the other layers will come along for the ride. This would be especially powerful when posing a base body mesh for example, where all the other accessories, equipment and clothing are located in separate layers. Just make all your selections in each layer, then pose the body itself and have the rest match that same transform.

[Taros]

@Ondrej Svadlena: Thank you. Ok. I've tested it. It is better, but two problems:

1. The problem(bug) with substracting areas still exists, and makes it hard to work in details.

2. It is impossible to select areas at narrow places (dells). This areas will be not selected, I was not abled to select them, nor with "Line"-selection. Impossible for posing.

And I still missing a "lasso function" for selecting pose areas.

@jedwards: To pose multiple layers if requested, is a big point, too. This should not be missed.

I've stopped to work on my main character and will start with the base pose for a new one, because of the mentioned problems. The tip from Ondrej don't help because of point 2 at the start of this post.

Regards

Chris

[Andrew Shpagin]

Ok, I will correct it asap.

But - selecting with ALPHA 0 really gives not 100% selection.

I can offer some additional checkbox for example - like "solid selection" to treat even 50% selection as 100%

[jedwards]

Ok, I will correct it asap.

But - selecting with ALPHA 0 really gives not 100% selection.

I can offer some additional checkbox for example - like "solid selection" to treat even 50% selection as 100%

I'd be willing to try that... whatever helps eliminate the distortions is good.

The dropping of selections when you hit undo is a pretty big workfow killer too, I agree. I've found posing in general to be a trial and error type thing so a lot of times you end up undoing the transform when you realize the selection isn't as accurate as you want it to be. This forces you to constantly repaint everything quite often.

At this point I've learned not to use transpose once I'm into higher resolutions. I try to nail my pose early when I have more flexibility with it. Even if I decide I'm not 100% happy later on, I generally leave it alone as the final piece will be fully rigged for posing/animation in another app anyway. I'm still glad to have it and do get some use out of it in early stages. But it doesn't quite offer the same flexibility as its zbrush counterpart yet.

It can only improve from here though. =]

[Taros]

Ok, I will correct it asap.

But - selecting with ALPHA 0 really gives not 100% selection.

I can offer some additional checkbox for example - like "solid selection" to treat even 50% selection as 100%

Thank you very much for the quick answer.

You would solve a lot of posing problems with a lasso function and the possibility to set a variable "smooth border" value. Maybe with realtime visual refresh?

Examples for lasso smooth values:

lasso border smoothing value: 100% (means maximum smoothness at border)

lasso border smooth value: 50% (a half of the 100% smoothness)

lasso border smooth value: 0% (hard border, no smoothing)

Image example, at bottom.

This would solve a lot of problems, maybe all, and you don't need any other pose area selecting tools, except the selection by pen.

I am shure.

Be creative and thanx again

Chris

[LJB]

Thank you very much for the quick answer.

You would solve a lot of posing problems with a lasso function and the possibility to set a variable "smooth border" value. Maybe with realtime visual refresh?

Examples for lasso smooth values:

lasso border smoothing value: 100% (means quite smooth)

lasso border smooth value: 50% (not smooth at all)

lasso border smooth value: 0% (hard border, no smoothing)

This would solve a lot of problems, maybe all, and you don't need any other pose selecting tools.

I am shure.

Be creative and thanx again

Chris

Taros you could use the split and mrge to pose work I found at hgigher resolution pose was unworkable so primarily i tried to split the model that was when i found the ovelap and that it could be blended.

[Taros]

Taros you could use the split and mrge to pose work I found at hgigher resolution pose was unworkable so primarily i tried to split the model that was when i found the ovelap and that it could be blended.

Thank you for the workaround, it should work, I'm shure. But I wait for the correction.

[Taros]

@Andrew: Please don't forget to check the problem with selecting "dell" areas. This are areas, where two voxelparts are very close to another.

Example: Fingers. It is not possible to select the areas between the fingers with any selecting tool. I mean the areas at the start of the fingerbones.

[Taros]

I've read in twitter that Andrew has made it possible to select areas by lasso and rectangle for posing parts!!!! That sounds great!

[Taros]

A small, but important wish:

Is it possible, to stop the "pose gizmo" at the last posing position?

Currently the gizmo rotates together with the posing rotation, but jumps back to the start position, after the posing. This is not nice.

Thank you

Chris

[Ondrej Svadlena]

A small, but important wish:

Is it possible, to stop the "pose gizmo" at the last posing position?

Currently the gizmo rotates together with the posing rotation, but jumps back to the start position, after the posing. This is not nice.

Thank you

Chris

In the pose params, check the "Apply transform to gizmo" checkbox

[Taros]

In the pose params, check the "Apply transform to gizmo" checkbox

upps...

Sorry for that. Had "tomatos on my eyes..."